An interview with
Bettler
of Verhinderer
Please introduce yourself and/ or your project. Please give a brief relevant history.
I personally don’t play a significant role; the focus is entirely on the project itself. It was officially founded in 2023 and primarily came about because I’ve been active in the metal scene for a long time—previously organizing concerts and contributing to a fanzine. I felt a strong urge to create music myself and bring my own ideas to life. I didn’t have a grand plan for the project; I simply wanted to release something and experiment. It’s important to note that I only started learning the guitar at the end of 2022, so the first demo is quite raw and was created during my initial learning process with the instrument. Over time, I’ve had the pleasure of collaborating with various labels and other musicians, which is gradually forming a larger overall picture of the project. Its future, however, remains uncertain.
What does the word “Animism” mean to you… This can be as literal or abstract as you wish. Does it find life in your project or in your day to day movements?
The term itself wasn’t directly familiar to me until now, but I’ve noticed that I do have a certain connection to this theme. On a personal level, since spending a lot of time in the Black Forest in my early twenties, I’ve developed a stronger bond with my surroundings and nature. This doesn’t refer to humanity, but to everything else around me—things that are supposedly inanimate. Having felt this connection, I believe that animism might indeed relate to me. Furthermore, my early demos and albums exhibit a certain closeness to nature, though this is no longer necessarily reflected in my current work. Personally, however, this connection remains. Because I don’t feel it as strongly today, I am drawn back to the Black Forest at regular intervals. Having spent a lot of time there completely alone, or away from people, I feel pulled back to that time for almost nostalgic reasons. I’m not sure if I would explicitly wish to have that life back, but I share a deep, nostalgic bond with it.
Do you talk with spirits or deities? Do they answer back?
I can’t really say that I do. Although I mentioned feeling a deep connection to my surroundings in the previous question, I wouldn’t say that I speak with spirits or deities, or that I’m even looking for them. In a way, I actually envy people who have that kind of faith, because I can’t seem to find it within myself—it simply contradicts my way of thinking. For me, spirits and deities are things I would need to see, which admittedly stands in stark contrast to the deep connection I feel toward nature and the seemingly inanimate. I realize there’s a bit of a contradiction there, but that’s how it works in my head. Contrary to some tropes in Black Metal, I wouldn’t say I necessarily want to destroy all belief within myself; I am a very worldly person. However, I remain open to new impressions—it doesn’t have to take the form of a religion, as that likely wouldn’t be the right approach for me, but I am open to discovery. I don’t feel any conflict in making music that stands against religion or ‘broken’ faith while still leaving room for myself to rediscover spirituality later in life. But who knows what the future holds.
If you could have a secret magickal power (or have one), what would it be? Or, what is it already?? And finally, what would you wish to do with such a power?
I find this question quite amusing because it’s something you get asked since childhood; back then it was more of a joke, but here it has a much deeper context. To be honest, even if I might secretly wish for certain superpowers at times, I’m actually glad they don’t exist. I like that things aren’t perfect, that problems aren’t always solvable, and that humans are limited and flawed. I find that very important—it’s what makes life worth living. It helps us grow and learn things rather than simply being able to do them instantly. Therefore, I’m happy to have no superpower and I don’t wish for one; in fact, I wouldn’t want anyone else to have one either. Even if one could supposedly use them for good, that’s just not how life works.
What is the season of the year that resonates most deeply with you and why? Do these vibrations appear in your work?
Answering this is easy for me because it has always been winter. I was born in February, and nothing resonates with me more than snow, the cold, and yet that sense of security within one’s own home—that ‘huddled together’ feeling. I find the merciless nature of the outdoors very fascinating. No matter my age, I’ve always found it a very special time in which I recognize myself. I’ve often tried to give winter more space in my work, but it simply doesn’t fit the themes of my music anymore—especially not in recent works like ‘Primitiv.’ My music is evolving away from daydreams, stories, legends, or the fantastical, moving toward more grounded subjects: inner conflicts and the psychological struggles of the modern day.
What do you dream of destroying?
This question could be answered in many directions—ranging from things I would like to destroy within myself to things in the world at large, without necessarily linking it directly to rage. To give a few examples: I would like to destroy my own traumas that restrict me. I would like to destroy my tendency to overthink, which often sends me out into the world with a heavy mind. I would love to destroy the burdens that my allies, friends, and my fiancée have to carry every day—burdens they aren’t responsible for, caused by the harm others have inflicted on them. That is something I would truly love to destroy; in that sense, I suppose I would like that superpower after all. I want to destroy everything that weighs people down through no fault of their own, but simply because of the actions of others. This is something I observe a lot in the world right now: people make decisions, and countless others have to suffer for them. I would like to liberate them from that. I would like to destroy the people behind those decisions—those acting out of pure madness, narcissism, and completely egocentric power games. Destroying that would make the world a better place. Right now, there are so many malicious people at the most important levers of power who don’t belong there. No one should have to suffer because of them. I would destroy that.
What do you dream of creating?
In principle, it’s exactly what I am doing right now. If I look only at myself: I’ve always wanted to create music, but not just for the sake of the music itself. I wanted things to evolve so that I could have even a tiny positive impact on this world. And I don’t mean that in a vague way, like someone saying ‘your music saved me.’ I wanted something tangible. That’s why I started these fundraising campaigns; I wanted to create something almost entirely selfless that someone else can benefit from. This doesn’t mean I make the music for others—I still make it for myself—but because I am a solo project and have complete freedom, which is a dream in itself, I can do whatever I want. I can choose the impact. I can decide for myself who should benefit, and honestly, that is already a very big personal dream coming true.
What keeps you up at night?
That’s a question I would have answered differently at every stage of my life. To be honest, right now I can happily say that I sleep quite well. Thankfully, I’m doing much better; I’m surrounded by people who care about me, who understand me, and we all look out for one another—not least because of my fiancée, who has brought a lot of peace to my mind, despite having her own struggles. A few years ago, however, things looked very different. During times when I lived in deep self-isolation—feeling misunderstood or unable to connect with anyone, or perhaps because people simply didn’t want anything to do with me—I couldn’t sleep. I struggled through my days, alone and isolated, suffering from panic attacks that sometimes left me barely able to move for days because everything felt overwhelming. It was mainly those times when I was too dependent on myself and stuck in isolation. It’s hard to put into words exactly what that was like, but it was a lesson to me, and one should learn from their mistakes. I’ve actually channeled this entire painful process into a record coming out later this year, giving those experiences a musical face and offering people an insight into it. But fortunately, I’m doing very well these days.
What brings you solace?
This question flows quite naturally from the previous one. These days, I draw a lot of solace from the people around me. At the same time, in moments of grief or when I’m in conflict with myself, it helps me to look back and see how far I’ve come and what I’ve already achieved. I try to look forward to the things ahead, even when times are tough. I’m a firm believer in karma—that if I do good things, good things will happen to me. Despite difficult periods, I believe in a positive future; I even try to look forward to growing older and actively work on taking away my own fear of what’s to come. There are still so many beautiful things ahead that I see no reason to sink into permanent sorrow over current issues. Of course, there are also specific places, like the ‘Heimerblick’ mentioned on my last spring album—a place of peace and silence where I sometimes go to simply indulge in a little bit of nostalgia.
What does the word ritual mean to you? Do you incorporate any rituals into your daily life? Your practice? Your performances?
Much of my daily life consists of rituals and repetitive tasks; this has become a habit to help me reach my goals and track my progress. I believe that by consistently performing a ritual, I can improve at things, which is very important to me for maintaining control over my life. Sometimes I might even impose these rituals on myself a bit too strictly. However, when it comes to rituals in the sense of occult themes, they play no part in my work. This is mainly because I simply don’t believe in them; I have no connection to the occult, and it finds no place in my songs, albums, or creative process. It’s not a subject that interests me. I feel it has been over-emphasized in many contexts already, and I don’t see it becoming relevant for me in the future. I prefer to focus on raw, central, and social themes that reflect the current zeitgeist.
Do politics enter into, inform or speak through your creative workings? What are your thoughts on the creative process’s esponsibility to political action?
Politics is a constant, sensitive topic in the Black Metal scene. In my earlier works, I wanted to provide a typical escape from reality—using fantastical and creative themes to drift away from problems. Eventually, I felt that didn’t fit for me anymore. To me, Black Metal also means diving into problems, addressing them, and venting your hatred toward them. I believe the time for completely distancing oneself politically from one’s own music is over. There are so many social issues today that infuriate me—especially the global shift toward the right—that I feel I have no choice but to address them. While it’s not my primary goal to create a purely political work, it happens automatically because these issues frustrate me so much. It honestly enrages me how politically uneducated many people are; they have no idea what would actually help them lead a better life. Instead, they act out of pure hatred and are completely unable to take responsibility for when things go wrong. They prefer to follow those who spread even more hate—hate that is both misplaced and profoundly misanthropic. That might sound ‘cool’ on a Black Metal lyric sheet, but in reality, it is absolutely impractical and irresponsible. As long as this situation persists and this ‘shit’ keeps happening without change, it will continue to infuriate me—and naturally, I will keep making music about it.
As we watch right wing movements grow internationally, what strategies might we use collectively to disrupt this trajectory? How do we productively engage in meaningful dialogue with people within and without of our political perspectives? How do we strengthen community? How could we change minds?
This is perhaps the most important question, yet one that is almost impossible to answer. The problem is: how do you seek a dialogue with people who essentially have no clue what would actually help them? It makes absolutely no sense to define one’s life through deeply conservative or right-wing ideologies. It simply doesn’t add up. In a dialogue, I wouldn’t even know where to begin. In Germany, this ranges from migration issues to the internal combustion engine or coal energy—people cling so tightly to the idea that ‘the old ways’ are better just because they once worked.
As someone in my twenties, it’s hard for me to see how to talk to these people when they seem to have no grasp of what is actually happening in the world, yet they still go out and vote. While I am open to all political perspectives being heard, there are simply things that no longer work and are fundamentally inhumane. The first thing that needs to happen is for people to understand the actual goals of these parties and how they will impact life in the future. It’s a fact that many middle-class people today vote conservative or right-wing, even though these parties do absolutely nothing for the middle class.
Furthermore, the most important step would be to foster a fundamentally better understanding of leftist parties. I believe they have developed a difficult reputation that no longer resonates with ‘ordinary’ middle-class or working-class people. They are no longer seen as parties of action. It is crucial for leftist parties to grow back into ‘doers’ and become parties that are close to the people again. Only then will there be a chance for them to be heard once more.
What does the word community mean to you and how does it influence your process and practice?
Community is probably the most important thing right now, yet people are so divided and full of hatred for one another that actual cohesion is missing. It’s a catastrophe, and you can feel it affecting the world. To strengthen this, it’s vital that all opinions are heard, but we also must be clear about what is fundamentally inhumane and senseless. That is my understanding of freedom of speech: you can say things, but some things are simply wrong—both factually and in their lack of humanity. I don’t accept those as valid ‘opinions’ under the guise of free speech.
We can only change minds once those in power stop being dividers. You see it most clearly in the US, but also here in Germany: we have too many ‘old white men’ in power who operate based on their own fantasies, completely lacking a modern understanding of the world. We need people in government who aren’t stuck in conservative power fantasies. Only then will there be a chance for us to grow closer as a community and talk to one another again.
At the moment, I find it difficult to see how we can even enter a dialogue as human beings; the atmosphere is just too tense. I do look toward the upcoming US elections this November with some positivity, hoping they might bring a turn for the better. However, until then, things look bleak, and here in Germany, it will still be a few years before our next major elections provide a chance for a course correction.
Community itself, independently of other factors, only plays a role in my music through my lyrics. Since I operate as a one-man project, I do everything alone and deliberately withdraw from the community. This allows me to perhaps gain a better, more independent perspective on the bigger picture.
Any last departing offerings? Anything you would like to talk about that was not covered?
These were truly intriguing questions, and I feel like I want to let my answers stand as they are. There are certainly many more things we could discuss and dive deeper into, but I think this has clarified my perspective on things quite well. I definitely want to thank you for these incredibly thoughtful questions. I’m also grateful that we’ve collaborated on a release and that I’ve been given the opportunity to share my views here. I look forward to what’s ahead, and I hope that there might be a physical, printed edition of this someday.
Interview list




Norn
Xiu Xiu
Occvlta
Six Organs of Admittance
Coume Ouarnede
Traktat
Sutekh Hexen
Andy Aquarius
Returning
Niko Karlsson